My take on Oregon take over of federal building concerning federal land, and farmers adjacent to said land

Farmers are continually bullied by the government. Some are paid not to grow corn and paid to grow soy bean. Crops are left not to be grown and land to stay empty except for the weeds . [ think goats or cows ] anyway , it is a cruel life and dedicated one. Weather worn and leather skin was my grandmother. years and years of plowing and seeding and picking. She was an inspiration later in her life. Later in her life I had grown up enough and appreciated her for who she was , not what she did. She had integrity, she was a moral woman and God fearing, she had 13 babies , ten lived and those kids worked the fields with her. It was their income their home always at stake if a crop went bad due to weather or bad seeding. her kids were clean and schooled . Her children were quiet in church and they worked after homework and worked during the summer. All to save their land, their home.

1929 the stocks fell and farmers were loosing their homes to banks right to left. My grandmother was one who lost it all and of course grandad . The farm was all they had and they could not afford it if merchants went under and customers too poor to buy pea's. Food was the economy , the dollar. Bartering for food stressful , when you did not know what they wanted in the place of bread. it was bad. 

My grandfather and grandmother broke up into two sets. My grandfather having the gift of colors and ability to mix colors with paint, an asset to people with money. He ended up able to afford a tiny home for his large family. Grandmother was having it harder begging for food with the sewing she did and alterations , again for people who had money. They treated her badly and like a common slave she worked hours and hours for two loaves of bread and if she was lucky some pig fat and flour.

years went by, her kids grown and gone, the depression far behind her , she was forever separated from grandfather and she remarried a missionary . Her life was good and cushy to some. She loved to dance and laugh, but if you mentioned the farm, her mood changed and her night was through.

She never forgave the banks , stock markets to her were for the devil and her money was literally buried in the back yard. She did not get over it. The anger during that time with 4 sons going into all factions of the military , wore on her and not the map to her life wore on her . She still laughed, danced and adored life way into her 80's. what would she think of Oregon right now ? 

She would stand by them. Federal land is precious , keeps people from building on it. However , these guys were doing a controlled burn by the feds land and it spread .. they got time. Now the cows are an issue? Cows roam. buy a few good dogs and hire a few folks on horses to keep them in their territory. It does work. Holding off the feds will make them lose their property and hand their lives back to federal prison. My grandmother would suggest better handling of live stalk and even perhaps ask for some air if the damn cow did get into the forest. the very worse could happen.. a pack of wild dogs or cougar. BUT , if left alone the cow does graze its way back to the herd.Second thought, maybe Grand , would not stand by these men. she also followed the law. federal land is there for a purpose. Though fed officials have been known to be paid off and give building permits to contractors for wetlands .... YES, wetlands.

where do we cross that line and should we ????

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Comment by Her Royal Highness Shawny lfrb on January 5, 2016 at 11:41pm

people with this mentality, seem to believe that being a martyr gives them a special place in heaven.

look at the paper today concerning ISIS,, they are now going to be using a jihadist. these terror groups come in so many varieties. their reasons are not clear why they prefer murder suicide ,to turning themselves in. I am lost on all of it, anymore.

Comment by Her Royal Highness Shawny lfrb on January 5, 2016 at 10:30pm

There is more to this artical on wiki .. amazing .. wow

Comment by Her Royal Highness Shawny lfrb on January 5, 2016 at 10:29pm

My memory of terror is Ruby Ridge 


Ruby Ridge was the site of a deadly confrontation and siege in northern Idaho in 1992 between Randy Weaver, his family, and his friend Kevin Harris and agents of the United States Marshals Service (USMS) and Federal Bureau of Investigation(FBI). The events resulted in the death of Weaver's son Sammy, his wife Vicki, and Deputy U.S. Marshal William Francis Degan.

At the subsequent federal criminal trial of Weaver and Harris, Weaver's attorneyGerry Spence made accusations of "criminal wrongdoing" against every agency involved in the incident: the FBI, the USMS, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF), and the United States Attorney's Office (USAO) for Idaho. At the completion of the trial, the Department of Justice's Office of Professional Responsibility formed a Ruby Ridge Task Force to investigate Spence's charges. The 1994 task force report was released in redacted form by Lexis Counsel Connect, an information service for attorneys. It raised questions about the conduct and policy of all the agencies.

The Ruby Ridge incident and the 1993 Waco siege, involving many of the same agencies and even the same personnel, caused public outcry and fueled the widening of the militia movement. To answer public questions about Ruby Ridge, theSenate Subcommittee on Terrorism, Technology and Government Information held a total of 14 days of hearings between September 6 and October 19, 1995, and subsequently issued a report calling for reforms in federal law enforcement to prevent a repeat of Ruby Ridge and to restore public confidence in federal law enforcement.


Randy Weaver, a former Iowa factory worker and U.S. Army combat engineer,[1] moved with his family to northern Idaho during the 1980s in order to "home-school his children and escape what he and his wife Vicki saw as a corrupted world."[2][3] Vicki, the religious leader of the family, believed that the apocalypse was imminent and believed her family would survive the apocalypse in a remote mountainous area. They bought twenty acres of land on Ruby Ridge in 1983 and began building a cabin.[4] The Weaver property was located in northern Idaho in Boundary County, on a hillside on Ruby Creek opposite Caribou Ridge near Naples.[5]

In 1984, Randy Weaver and his neighbor Terry Kinnison had a dispute over a $3,000 land deal. Kinnison lost the ensuing lawsuit and was ordered to pay Weaver an additional $2,100 in court costs and damages. Kinnison wrote letters to the FBISecret Service, and county sheriff alleging Weaver had threatened to kill the Pope, the President, and John V. Evans, governor of Idaho. In January 1985, the FBI and the Secret Service started an investigation. In February, Randy and Vicki Weaver were interviewed for hours by two FBI agents, two Secret Service agents, and the Boundary County sheriff and his chief investigator.[6] Although the Secret Service was told that Weaver was a member of the Aryan Nations and that he had a large weapon cache at his residence, Weaver denied the allegations and no charges were filed.[7]

The investigation noted that Weaver associated with Frank Kumnick, who was known to associate with members of the Aryan Nations. Weaver told the investigators that neither he nor Kumnick were members of the Aryan Nations and described Kumnick as "associated with the Covenant, Sword, and Arm of the Lord."[8] On February 28, 1985, Randy and Vicki Weaver filed an affidavit with the county courthouse alleging that their personal enemies were plotting to provoke the FBI into attacking and killing the Weaver family.[6] On May 6, 1985, Randy and Vicki Weaver sent a letter to President Ronald Reagan claiming that Weaver's enemies may have sent the president a threatening letter under a forged signature. No evidence of a threatening letter surfaced; however, the 1985 letter was cited by theprosecutor in 1992 as overt act 7 of the Weaver family conspiracy against the federal government.[9][10]

ATF involvement[edit]

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms first became aware of Weaver in July 1986 when he was introduced to an ATF informant at a meeting of the Aryan Nations. Weaver had been invited by Frank Kumnick, who was the original target of the ATF investigation. It was Weaver's first attendance. Over the next three years, Weaver and the informant met several times.[7] In October 1989, the ATF claimed that Weaver sold the informant two sawed-off shotguns, with the overall length of the guns shorter than the legal limit set by federal law. In November 1989, Weaver accused the ATF informant of being a spy for the police; Weaver later wrote he had been warned by "Rico V."[11] The informant's handler, Herb Byerly, ordered him to have no further contact with Weaver. Eventually, the FBI informant Rico Valentino outed the ATF informant to Aryan Nations security.[12]

The ATF agent Byerly had come to regard Kumnick as just a "boastful show-off" and Weaver as even less involved. In June 1990, Byerly attempted to use the sawed-off shotgun charge as leverage to get Weaver to act as an informant for his investigation into the Aryan Nations.[10] It is clear that, after the gun sale occurred, ATF was not so much interested in prosecuting Weaver as in using its case against him as a carrot and stick to force him to become a government informant against those in political extremist groups, like the Aryan Nations, who may themselves have been engaged in significant criminal activity involving guns or explosives. When Weaver refused to become "a snitch," the ATF filed the gun charges in June 1990, also claiming Weaver was a bank robber with criminal convictions (those claims were false: at that time Weaver had no criminal record and the subsequent Senate investigation found: "Weaver was not a suspect in any bank robberies."[10]) Weaver denied the sawed-off weapon charge, claiming that the informant had purchased two legal shotguns from him and later shortened the guns. A federal grand jury later indicted him in December 1990 for making and possessing, but not for selling, illegal weapons in October 1989.[7]

ATF agents posed as broken-down motorists and arrested Randy and Vicki Weaver when they stopped to assist. Randy Weaver was told of the charges against him, released on bail, and told that his trial would begin on February 19, 1991. On January 22, 1991, the judge in the case notified the attorney Everett Hofmeister that he (Hofmeister) would be serving as Weaver’s attorney; Hofmeister made several unsuccessful attempts to contact Weaver.[13] On that same day, Weaver called the U.S. probation officer Karl Richins and informed him that Weaver was instructed to contact him on that date. Richins did not have the case file at that time, so he asked Weaver to leave his contact information and Richins would contact him when he received the paperwork. According to Richins, Weaver did not give him a telephone number.[14] The defense counsel Hofmeister sent letters to Weaver on January 19, January 31, and February 5 asking Weaver to contact him to work on his defense within the federal court system.

On February 5, the trial date was changed from February 19 to February 20 to give participants more travel time following a federal holiday. The court clerk sent a letter to the parties informing them of the date change, but the notice was not sent directly to Weaver, only to his attorney. On February 7, the probation officer sent Weaver a letter indicating that he now had the case file and needed to talk with Weaver. This letter erroneously indicated that Weaver's trial date was set for March 20.[14] On February 8, Hofmeister again attempted to contact Weaver by letter informing him that the trial was to begin on February 20 and that Weaver needed to contact him immediately. Hofmeister also made several calls to individuals who knew Weaver asking them to have Weaver call him. Hofmeister toldJudge Harold L. Ryan he did not hear from Weaver before the scheduled court date.[15]

When Weaver did not appear in court on February 20, Judge Ryan issued a bench warrant for failure to appear in court. On February 26, Ken Keller, a reporter for the Kootenai Valley Times, telephoned the U.S. Probation Office and asked if the reason that Weaver did not show in court on February 20 was because the letter sent to him by Richins had the incorrect date. Upon finding a copy of the letter, the Chief Probation Officer, Terrence Hummel, contacted Judge Ryan's clerk and informed them of the incorrect date in the letter. Hummel also contacted the U.S. Marshals Service and Weaver’s attorney informing them of the error. The judge, however, refused to withdraw the bench warrant.

The U.S. Marshals Service did agree to put off executing the warrant until after March 20 to see if Weaver would show up in court on that day. If he were to show up on March 20, the DOJ claimed that all indications are that the warrant would have been dropped.[14] Instead of waiting to see if Weaver would show up on March 20, however, the U.S. Attorney’s Office (USAO) called a grand jury on March 14. The USAO failed to provide Richins’ erroneous letter (which proved that Weaver had been misinformed about his summons to federal court) as evidence to the grand jury, and the grand jury issued an indictment for failure to appear.[7]

U.S. Marshals Service involvement[edit]

When the Weaver case was passed from the ATF to the Marshals Service, no one informed the marshals of the fact that ATF had attempted to solicit Weaver as an informant.[16]

As the law enforcement arm of the federal court, it was the duty of the U.S. Marshals to bring in Randy Weaver, now considered a fugitive.[14] Unlike most federal fugitives, who flee across state lines to avoid arrest, Randy Weaver simply stayed at his remote home, threatening to resist any attempt to take him by force.[17][18]

Weaver was known to have an intense distrust of government, and it is believed that the erroneous Richins letter increased this sentiment and may have contributed to his reluctance to appear for trial. Weaver was clearly suspicious of what he viewed as inconsistent messages from the government and his own lawyer and this inconsistency further enforced his belief that there was a conspiracy against him.[14] Weaver came to believe that he would not receive a fair trial if he were to appear in court. His distrust grew further when he was erroneously told by his magistrate that if he lost the trial he would lose his land, essentially leaving Vicki homeless, and that the government would take away his children.[19]

U.S. Marshals Service officers made a series of attempts to have Weaver surrender peacefully, but Weaver refused to leave his cabin. Weaver negotiated with U.S. Marshals Ron Evans, W. Warren Mays and David Hunt through third parties from March 5 to October 12, 1991, when Assistant U.S. Attorney Ron Howen directed that the negotiations cease.[14] The U.S. Attorney directed that all negotiations would go through Weaver's court-appointed counsel; however, Weaver did not have any contact with the attorney and refused to talk with him. Marshals then began preparing plans to capture Weaver to stand trial on the weapons charges and his failure to appear at the correct trial date.[7]

Although Marshals stopped the negotiations as ordered, they made other contact. March 4, 1992, U.S. Marshals Ron Evans and Jack Cluff drove to the Weaver property and spoke with Weaver posing as real estate prospects.[14] At a March 27, 1992 USMS HQ meeting, Art Roderick code named the operation "Northern Exposure".[20] Surveillance teams were dispatched and cameras were set up to record activity at Weaver's residence. Marshals observed that Weaver and his family responded to vehicles and other visitors by taking up armed positions around the cabin until the visitors were recognized.[7]

Threat source profile[edit]

Beginning in February 1991, U.S. Marshals developed a Threat Source Profile on Randy Weaver. The evolution of that profile was later criticized in a 1995 report by a subcommittee of the Senate Judiciary Committee:

The Subcommittee is [...] concerned that, as Marshals investigating the Weaver case learned facts that contradicted information they previously had been provided, they did not adequately integrate their updated knowledge into their overall assessment of who Randy Weaver was or what threat he might pose. If the Marshals made any attempt to assess the credibility of the various people who gave them information about Weaver, they never recorded their assessments. Thus, rather than maintaining the Threat Source Profile as a living document, the Marshals added new reports to an ever-expanding file, and their overall assessment never really changed. These problems rendered it difficult for other law enforcement officials to assess the Weaver case accurately without the benefit of first-hand briefings from persons who had continuing involvement with him.[10]

Many of the people used by the marshals as third party go-betweens on the Weaver case—Bill and Judy Grider, Alan Jeppeson, Richard Butler—were evaluated by the marshals as more radical than the Weavers themselves. When Deputy U.S. Marshal (DUSM) Dave Hunt asked Bill Grider about Randy Weaver: "Why shouldn't I just go up there ... and talk to him?" Bill Grider replied, "Let me put it to you this way. If I was sitting on my property and somebody with a gun comes to do me harm, then I'll probably shoot him."[21] In the later Department of Justice OPR Ruby Ridge Task Force Report, Grider's words were incorrectly reported as a threat made by Weaver.[22]

The profile included "a brief psychological profile completed by a person who had conducted no first-hand interviews and was sufficiently unfamiliar with the case that he referred to Weaver as 'Mr. Randall' throughout."[10][23] A later memo circulated within the DOJ opined that: "The assumptions of federal and some state and local law enforcement personnel about Weaver—that he was a Green Beret, that he would shoot on sight anyone who attempted to arrest him, that he had collected certain types of arms, that he had 'booby-trapped' and tunneled his property—exaggerated the threat he posed."[24]

Rivera helicopter incident[edit]

Comment by Her Royal Highness Shawny lfrb on January 5, 2016 at 3:42pm
you are hard to argue, when we agree, lolololol
my great grand would not do things the way they are.. in the old days more dogs and ranch hands handle the cattle. these guys are not only lazy they are crooks. They have their nerve to call anyone of any sort lazy .

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