Emergence

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Comment by MBRHIndustries on March 8, 2010 at 11:15pm

@ August - Just finished reading the bottom comment, broke a retina. I agree with the last part, don't give a fuck about whether or not people think you're crazy for trying to make use of your mind, never stop learning. Even if theories that differ, like between Erich von Däniken and say Credo Mutwa, they do share common grounds that lean towards a strange truth that we still don't know all the details of, but is probably true based on historical evidence if you look at it with a, I guess broader view.

@Beorn - Good point, good post.

@Beach - Is that a trick question? You don't really negotiate a peace treaty for fighting sparked by a false flag attack, you just gotta worry about looking good in front of the constituents. awesome spin small.gif

Comment by Count Draugula on March 5, 2010 at 8:07pm

@ Beorn. - Well for myself. The fact of everything being made of microbes and bacteria and cells was never in question nor really ignored... but for me, had already been taken for granted in the discussion. But this is a fascinating study from this Dan Dennett. I wasn't questioning the illusion of consciousness or not. What I was talking about in my post was really the varying level of intelligence among species on the planet... consciousness as a cellular phenomenon or not. For me, I don't have any problems with that being true or otherwise. Perception is reality... in most cases. Perhaps ALL cases... according to the observer. If a person was blind and attended the forum in the video... the discussion below would have been moot. And in their reality, have almost zero bearing. ( Just a easy example to throw out there). Would that make the argument moot for the rest in attendance? Of course not... not anymore that if a person had simply not attended and received the information. - now regarding the study of emergence. It is pretty clear to me and a wonderful example of the cells working as one and moving as one, and could be perceived as a type of "group effort". And to some as a singular consciousness, depending on their individual schools of thought, as something entirely different. No doubt. But as you said, they are all simply cells.. doing their jobs based on a predetermined... or perhaps evolved into path. Either way. But for myself, I really had not been chasing the issue regarding that. I was speaking on a different topic from my own direction. I wish I had the opportunity to attend some of these physiological and psychological conferences and forums. And I am happy we have the internet to have our own discussions and also have the opportunity to view these videos and education. Wonderful! Thanks!

Comment by MBD - Tha Last NetBender on March 5, 2010 at 6:07am

Comment by Count Draugula on March 4, 2010 at 3:31pm

That science/ faith diagram is funny as HELL! So sad it's almost that easy... - Well, I have been witness to the arguments that have been going on in the faith and athiest camps all over youtube, I can't believe that people are going off on things at that level. But when you really step back... and look at it from a distance. BOTH parties are being close minded. That's why I side step the whole thing and chase education. Instead of chasing "the argument". Looks like you have a propensity for this as well. Which is good. Fanaticism seems to abound in both camps and just really takes the energy out of a person and their search for knowledge. NOW back to the topic I find it fascinating personally that in the human condition, there seems to be a higher level of consciousness that most other orgamisims on the planet... but I'll be damned if it can be measured. That the crux of the situation for myself personally. When you look at a reptile for instance, a crocodile... they live to be 100 years.. possibly more. Are adapted to their environment at a high level. Then you view a human, who adapts his environment... to himself. It is a reversal. And not just like any old animal.. making a den etc... but using machinery and chemicals. It's a silly idea to lump "us", into the totally animal arena, but yet we operate as animals at a great level as well. There is alot more going on here then evolution, but it is part of it... of course, but I don't think that you can simply say that "God" did it. However, many mechanical engineers claim their inspiration as.. divine intervention. Or say that.. it came in a dream.(their idea for a combustion engine etc... and this is alot more common than people might realize.) There is alot that is kept hidden from people... and if let out would cause a meltdown of certain "businesses" and social control schemes. Not saying that these are not necessary, they may very well be needed to keep a certain percentage of the population, in check, morally. Now having said that.. what does one do? Hold certain information privy? Or leave it there.. for those who want to know available to be discovered if they put in the work and time to really chase it? I don't know. But I do think that the latter has come to be, today. We have great resources of information, and the sources should always be considered... but I tend to look at "ancient" archeology and anthropology as my resources. Because it is something tangible... but even more tangible are current photos.. videos and accounts of other intelligent beings alive, that aren't human per se... but act much more like us. Than we do... a chimpanzee for example. (And the chimp has nearly our same DNA and physical attributes) - It's a hell of a topic and this rabbit hole runs deep. DO you know who Eric Von Daniken is? - if so.. you know that he was accused of falsifying evidence at one point... and even if so.. I think there is much more there then he could have mislead people on... even if he was doing that out of his own frustration from not being heard by as many people as he wished he was. If you haven't heard of him. That might be a great place to start if you don't have any fear of people thinking you are a nut. :) I personally don't care what people think, because I am the one digging for info... and if looked at as a nut for educating myself, anybody who thinks "that"... is preposterous and their opinion doesn't have any legitimacy regarding "me" ( That's just a little something that makes me feel better for questioning.)

Oh boy... that's a super TLDR. HAHAHA

Comment by MBRHIndustries on March 2, 2010 at 11:36pm

Alright, I think you cleared up your position for me quite a bit. I think I may have jumped the gun on the hand of god part, and thats my bad. Panspermia is a completely viable explaination, and the fact earth has been getting hit with varying sizes of space debris since it became big enough to support its own gravitational field only gives opportunity for it to even happen. As far as humans seemingly instant acclimation towards society, thats a little harder to call for sure, as none of us were there. Advancing naturally from tribal culture, it being part of the genetic code that was intentionally planted on earth, extra terrestrial life granting us the knowledge to build more complex social structure, etc., humans are sentient, conscious beings for some reason. By all means continue to feed bites, more people should think this is important than presently do. At least in my opinion. I am not a scientist.

Comment by Count Draugula on March 2, 2010 at 4:06am

Okay.. firstly. Please don't confuse me with a "creationist". Because I am a scientist. And am entirely open to the discussion from either camp... now with this in consideration. Let me submit to you this... have you heard of the theory of panspermia? This is the exact reason in MHO... that on earth, life "first began". Now.. in regard to that... my prior post may be a touch misconstrued as a advocate of the "intelligent design" and "creationist" camp.. it isn't. So... having said that. It is in my belief, not through a lack of study... that simple chemistry and biological evolution has brought life... to a point, to our currently observable situation... in fact I support this, in it's entirety. Where the crux of my own conundrum lies is in the exorbitantly advanced level at which humans "in particular" have exploded into their current state. There is ZERO doubt that life has been flourishing on this planet in it's various forms for millennial periods of time. Where my question is going, is this... how is it possible that a organism can advance into the state that humans have currently found themselves in? Red pill? just ask... I will... slowly and with conservativeness enter into this discussion. It can't be taken in all at once. And I wouldn't hit a person, with all of it at once, because I have consideration of a persons sanity. Small bites is the healthiest way to eat this sandwich. And I don't force feed.

Comment by MBRHIndustries on March 1, 2010 at 6:26pm

@August - Don't do it bro, that can opener is a whore. Also this

Comment by Count Draugula on February 27, 2010 at 6:32pm

Really cool! - But I can't help but stir the pot a touch. The fact that the emergence of complexity from simplicity, regarding molecules is no new idea, it's evolution based on need. But the thing I liked most about this is how the guy takes the acid and replicates the conditions he thinks were available to organisms on this planet at that time, and finds that in time they all had an emergence. The fascinating thing to me is... when looking at this, the acid would never had a chance to prove this theory - without his interaction with it, his hand almost as a hand of a god!. So for all the intelligent design or "Divine intervention crowd" There is your argument. HAHAHA! This was so neat! And I hope that the tech doesn't get so far that. I walk into the kitchen and my toaster says... white or wheat this morning? And just so you know... the can opener has been talking dirty to me, can you move him to the other counter please kthx.. WTF?!

Comment by MBRHIndustries on February 27, 2010 at 3:41pm